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Sunday, 19 December 2010

Heretical texts

Following my previous Harry Potter post I was wondering if many people read books they might consider heretical, or do they avoid them as an ‘evil’.

I read a wide variety of material from religious to science to anti religious. But do people generally only read stuff within their comfort zone? Do atheists only read Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris or do they read books promoting faith or against un-belief. Do fundamental Christians read modern science books explaining evolution? Would general Christians consider studying the ‘Book of Mormon’ for example?

I get the impression that people without belief will read most things but those of faith only study their own texts and even fear those of others in case they are tempted or corrupted.

An example I had personally is that a read a book called ‘LIFE How Did It Get Here? By evolution or creation?’ given to be by a JW I know. At first glance it looks like a science book but soon degenerated into standard Watchtower creationist propaganda with so much bias it was childish. By the way if anyone else has read this, especially JWs and though it was well argued I would be glad to discuss its faults. In return for this book I tried to give this person a copy of ‘Letter to a Christian Nation’ by Sam Harris by they refused to even consider reading it.

I know some religions have had lists of banned books that you read at your peril but I'm not sure if this is still true. There have of course been book burning sessions in the recent past by religious groups and according to Goggle it looks like the catholic church had a list of banned books until 1966. I cant find which is the most modern books that were on this list though.

A few seasons ago the BBC programme 'Waterloo Road', a drama about a school, there was a story line where it was going to get sponsorship by an American creationist group and this led to some kids burning the 'Dark Materials' books from the school library. That suggests that we are still not far away from what I consider a nightmare scenario of book burnings and censorship.

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10 comments:

  1. Anonymous20 December 2010 at 11:59

    "A few seasons ago the BBC programme 'Waterloo Road', a drama about a school, there was a story line where it was going to get sponsorship by an American creationist group and this led to some kids burning the 'Dark Materials' books from the school library. That suggests that we are still not far away from what I consider a nightmare scenario of book burnings and censorship."


    It's a tv drama not a documentary!

    Just because a writer thinks that something will make a dramatic storyline doesn't mean that it's any more likely to happen in real life.

    In fact the most recent, school-related, book burning story was about the incineration of a holy text (the Koran).

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  2. Lazarus20 December 2010 at 16:21

    "Just because a writer thinks that something will make a dramatic storyline doesn't mean that it's any more likely to happen in real life."

    But the best stories come from real life;
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/1735623.stm
    http://www.hpana.com/news.17092.html

    Examples are easily found and these pre-date the drama mentioned.

    Banning books, rather than burning them, also has unfortunately a long history.

    I deem burning/banning any book, Koran included, as unwarranted censorship and an attempt to stifle free thought.

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  3. Anonymous20 December 2010 at 16:49

    So a few cranks in the US burning Harry Potter books seven years ago (and nine years ago) "suggests that we are still not far away from what I consider a nightmare scenario of book burnings and censorship" to you?

    You seem to suffering from an overactive imagination.

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  4. Lazarus20 December 2010 at 17:16

    Well before we go off at a tangent, the post was not really about "book burnings and censorship" but about how people of different beliefs feel about reading out side their comfort zone or even books that they would consider Heretical or banned.

    I deliberately picked links older than the school drama to show that such a story line, though fictional, was not improbable as it could have been inspired by previous real examples.

    Do you think groups trying to ban and censor books isn't happening even now? The latest Potter books have received as much criticism and attempts at censorship by your 'few cranks' as the first.

    But how have you defined 'cranks'? Does it include the catholic church that had an official list of banned books until 1966? This church still reserves the right to ban books it deems theologically erroneous. It's representatives still discourage the reading of certain books including then Harry Potter series.
    http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2005/jul/05071301

    Pope Ratzinger hardly falls under your definition of 'a few cranks in the US', but he is still sending a clear message to parents that such books should not be encouraged.

    But I do not want to appear to be picking out one faith group as all religions I can think of suppress certain writings and ideas that they think could corrupt their members.

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  5. Anonymous20 December 2010 at 21:27

    "But how have you defined 'cranks'? Does it include the catholic church that had an official list of banned books until 1966? This church still reserves the right to ban books it deems theologically erroneous. It's representatives still discourage the reading of certain books including then Harry Potter series.
    http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2005/jul/05071301

    Pope Ratzinger hardly falls under your definition of 'a few cranks in the US', but he is still sending a clear message to parents that such books should not be encouraged"

    Has the Vatican banned or burned Ms Rowlings books now?

    News to me.

    You seem to be suggesting that they did away with their list of "banned books" over forty years ago.

    How does any of this suggest that we are currently "not far away from what I consider a nightmare scenario of book burnings and censorship"?

    Paranoid much?

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  6. Anonymous21 December 2010 at 16:55

    I don't believe in the supernatural, being a confirmed atheist. But my favourite reading is supernatural stuff, H P Lovecraft, William Hope Hodgson, M R James...

    I accept the theory of Evolution, but my dad's lent me a copy of Darwins diaries aboard the Beagle. It's very unlikely I'll read it. Just doesn't really interest me.

    I don't find the bible at all offensive, just irrelevant, same with the Torah and the Koran.
    It amuses me when religious types get all nutty over book burnings, cartoons etc. In the case of Christians they should surely turn the other cheek and leave it for their god to adjudicate on. It strikes me that if Allah needs defending from insults he surely can't be omnipotent - again surely the muslims should leave it for their god to judge.

    The correct religious response to insults and atheists should be "I pity you, you'll burn in hell for that".

    I do think the issue of teaching creationism in the US is serious - for the US. VBEG

    And as they're over the other side of the pond, and over the hill, who cares? ;)

    I'm not worried about their nuttiness crossing over to the UK in any serious manner.

    Chris R

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  7. Lazarus21 December 2010 at 21:27

    Anonymous said...

    "Paranoid much?"

    Well it is good to see that you don't have any problems with the main subject of the post but how can you question if I might be paranoid about this?

    To have concerns about the education and development of children when there are clearly issues is not being paranoid, it is being concerned with good reason.

    Unfortunately your 'few cranks' are adults, and most will have families and children being brought up to fear and reject certain writings because they would challenge the restricted world view given to them.

    Are you unconcerned that books are being restricted and banned by certain groups?

    And why do you ask if I'm saying that the Vatican is burning books when I have been specific said what the Vatican - through the present Pope are doing? - and it isn't burning books.

    Do you agree that children should be discourage from reading such books as the Harry Potter series? You seem to be siding with such statements as;
    That they 'are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul',
    That they are 'massing spiritual warfare',

    If you think I am paranoid for being concerned that such sentiments seem to be emanating from the largest, most influential and powerful religious organisation in the world, I plead guilty and proud of it.

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  8. Lazarus21 December 2010 at 21:43

    Chris R,

    I think I may have been missing out on not reading Lovecraft et al. I used to read a lot of horror but mainly the likes of Clive Barker, James Herbert and of course Stephen King.

    The fiction I read now is mostly Historical conflict in the Bernard Cornwell mould. I do particularly like the way he deals with religion. Many of his characters are very religious and from very religious times yet nothing attributed to god(s) ever needs a supernatural cause.

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  9. Anonymous22 December 2010 at 17:40

    Lovecraft is, I must admit, something of an acquired taste. He has flaws, although his position in the history of American Gothic is secure.

    "The Colour Out of Space" is in my opinion one of the greatest sci-fi horrors ever written, it's available for free here: http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/lovecraft/thecolouroutofspace.htm
    Lovecraft spent most of his writing life trying to produce what he termed "Cosmic Horror", the horror of our miniscule and insignificant place amidst the limitless void of space and the horrors that lurk therein. He thought "Colour" was the closest he ever got to that conception, I think it's the closest any author got.

    Barker's early works, particularly Weaveworld and Imajica were masterpieces. I'm amazed neither was ever filmed.

    I've never even heard of Bernard Cromwell before. I'm still stuck in my sci-fi / supernatural-horror groove, have been since a teenager.

    Chris R.

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  10. Lazarus24 December 2010 at 14:29

    Thanks for the link Chris - all of Lovecraft's work on line and free - I have no excuse not to increase the breadth of my reading.

    I'm sure you know Cornwell, he is responsible for the Sharp books and Sean Bean played Sharp in several mini series on the TV. Strange thing is that I have read pretty much all of Cornwell's books to date except the Sharp ones - Only read a couple of those.

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